Besides just being BUSY at the moment, we’re both feeling the anxiety of the daily current news. And it is exhausting, y’all. So, yes, while we do need a good nap, we also get into the themes of rest, self-care, and community engagement amidst the challenges of modern life in this episode. There is a tension between the need for personal rest and the demands of activism, and as with most things in life, it is important to find balance. We also talk about the value of micro rituals in daily life, even if they are much more micro than you would like them to be. We’re holding another round of the Queerness Every Day Challenge and it’s a great opportunity for folks to participate in small, meaningful practices that connect queerness and spirituality, especially amidst the busyness!

Takeaways

• Both hosts express a shared feeling of being emotionally and spiritually drained.
• The conversation highlights the importance of self-care amidst life’s demands.
• There is a tension between the need to rest and the need to engage in activism.
• Marginalized individuals often have less ability to rest due to survival pressures.
• Quality engagement with community can be more rejuvenating than passive consumption.
• Micro rituals can help maintain connection to spirituality and self-care.
• The busier one is, the more they need to engage in self-care practices.
• Finding a minimum viable ritual can help maintain spiritual practices during busy times.
• Community connections are vital for emotional support and rejuvenation.
• The Queerness Every Day Challenge encourages small, meaningful daily practices.

Chapters

(07:18) Balancing Self-Care and Activism

(13:28) Quality Engagement vs. Passive Consumption

(19:27) Micro Rituals for Daily Life

(22:27) The Queerness Every Day Challenge

Resources:.

• Join our online community at  Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

00:00:50

And, you know, God, that hit me. So that was, felt just like, felt so real And I was like, yeah, let’s talk about that. Like, and so we’re not gonna talk only about napping, but I think, and, and let us know if this resonates with you, that like, we’re both kind of like literally tired a lot of the time, emotionally tired, sometimes feeling like spiritually drained and despondent. I mean, I think like for all the obvious reasons that everyone is feeling. And then also we, we probably each have our own sort of like, particular versions of that in our own lives. You know, this is something that happens at all points throughout history and throughout our lives. And also like at this particular moment, it feels maybe it’s more acute for many of us.

00:01:34

And also, right, like I still gotta pay the bills And I still have like family and friends that I care about and who care about me. And I still want to like experience joy and connection and community. And I still wanna, like, I don’t wanna give up and just crawl into a hole. I want to continue to fight to make the world a better place. And so like, we wanna explore this sort of like tension between the very real need to sometimes take naps and to take care of ourselves, and also the importance of taking care of each other. And maybe how those two, like you actually can’t separate as much as maybe people want you to think you can separate and, and just sort of like, like how are we doing this in this moment?

00:02:16

We don’t have an outline. This is like very unscripted off the cuff. I was working on my other job like until like 9:00 PM last night. So we’re like, this is like, you’re like, you’re Shay’s been driving a bunch for work. Like you’re getting, this is real. So Shay like you said, I want talk about, or I don’t, if you see this, wanna talk about, I think you said what I wanna do is nap. Yes, yes. So like what’s, like, what’s going on for you? Yeah, yeah. It’s just been a really, really busy season. You know, as we’re recording this, we’re recording this a little bit ahead of, of when it’s gonna go out, but like, I just launched a book a couple of weeks ago. I started a new job about a month ago.

00:02:55

I’m like you said, I’ve been driving a ton. The, the work that I’m doing has me in, in a bunch of different places. A, a play that I have been working on for two years, like just had its premiere, right? So there’s just been a ton going on and we were both kind of joking, you know, I think there’s that meme that goes around that’s like adulthood is just saying things are gonna calm down after next week over and over again until you die. Yep. And that’s, I feel like the two of us have both been in that space of, like, I was just telling my wife today, I was like, yeah, now this play is open. Like the the last thing I have to do is like rewrite the Queer Theology book. And we were kind of like laughing and then I can take a break and it’s just like, you know, it’s just, It’s just a small little thing of rewriting a whole 65,000 a book, Not 60,000 pages, Lord, Sorry, 60,000 words.

00:03:49

Yes. Be like, what publishing. But I think that, you know, I, I think, I think that this feeling that both of us are laughing about is like not uncommon with a lot of people. And I think that like, in addition to all of the just logistical and whatever things, it’s also like we are living in a time of increasing whatever this is. And there’s a lot of, you know, anxiety and fear and uncertainty and just a lot of unknowns. And like that also takes a toll on your mental and emotional and spiritual health. And so like, I’m just, I’m carrying all of that.

00:04:31

Yeah. And I think, I know that there’s been a lot of conversation online about like, rest over the past. I don’t know, it, it feels like over the past couple of years there’s been kind of this rest discourse, some from the like Nat Ministry folks, but like that it’s, it’s a lot broader, more broad than, than just that. And I’ve, I’ve really struggled with that because I think that there is a tension between, yes, we have to take care of ourselves, we have to like actually sleep and eat and drink water and all of those things. And also like, the more marginalized you are, I think the less ability you have to rest.

00:05:14

Like, there’s just always something to do. And like often that’s something to do feels very tied to survival, right? It’s not just like, I don’t have the luxury to just like check out because people are trying to legislate trans people out of existence. Right? Like, I don’t have the luxury to just whatever. And It’s like not choosing between like, I’m only gonna go go to one brunch this weekend instead of two brunches this weekend. Exactly. Right. Exactly. And like, and sometimes it feels like, I dunno, this is maybe my bias showing, I mean, sometimes it feels like some of the folks using the rest idea, especially online, are people who are like white, white, able bodied, cis and like not actually doing anything anyway.

00:06:01

And so it like, so it’s like whatcha resting from Yeah. Like, because you’re like not out in the streets and you’re not defending trans people and you’re not like fighting for existence. And so all I’m saying, and you work Like, and you work at Google, like Yeah. Like, you’re, you’re, you’re fine. Yeah. Maybe, maybe what you need to do is like, rest less and yeah, work more so that the rest of us can rest Anyway. So I, so I, I’ve struggled with that tension, but I do think that there is a, there’s something here for marginalized folks at figuring out, like, what is that balance? Like how do we care for ourselves and invest in our communities and like center joy and celebration in the midst of also not checking out of the work and continuing to show up for justice causes.

00:06:54

And I don’t, I don’t clearly with how tired I’m today, like I have not achieved that balance. But I do think that it’s like, that’s an important thing to be thinking through and and wrestling through for all of us, especially in this moment. So those are, yeah, those are some of my initial thoughts. Yeah. Something that you said sparked in me, this totally unrelated idea that I use in my relationship coaching practice, but it, it feels like an apt analogy. And I, I wanna share that and then like, then I’ll share a little bit about my own shit. But like oftentimes, especially in long-term relationships where the partners live together, what will happen is they, because they live together and they’ve been together for a while, they’ll end up spending like most of their time together.

00:07:37

And so every day they like come home from work or they work all day at home anyways. ’cause they’re, they’re remote working and so they’ll sort of like be at home and like, maybe they’ll cook dinner and maybe they’ll order dinner in and they’ll like watch a TV show or like not, or sort of like be on their phones. And so they’re like spending a lot of like physical time together, but it’s like very like the same old, same old every single day and kind of monotonous and, or they’re like physically next to each other on the couch, but they’re scrolling on Instagram if they’re open or polyamorous, like they’re scrolling on Grindr or Tinder or they’re like Snapchatting with like strangers, right? Like, and so you’re like together, but you’re like not having quality reconnection time, nor are you actually having quality, like meeting new people time or stimulating your brain through hobbies or like resting.

00:08:31

And so this sort of like seemingly paradoxical coaching that I often give folks is like, you probably need to spend like more both like more time together and less time together, like less physical time together. Even if that’s just sort of like go into separate rooms and like read a book over there and like, you play your favorite video game over here, but like, don’t just like sit on the couch kind of doing nothing together. That is nice sometimes, but like, that shouldn’t be your every day. And, and then spend more time like, like cooking in the elaborate meal rather than just like reheating pizza or like making a picnic in the park or going for a walk around the block or like putting your phones away and sitting on the couch and like holding hands or using one of those like intimacy card decks by Best Self co like asking each other a few like sort of deep questions, like to actually get some quality connection.

00:09:16

And so I think that there’s a, an analogy here where sort of like, when I feel the least the when I sometimes, like when I feel the most in need of rest is like when I’m like not doing anything where it’s like I’ve like caught myself in a doom scroll and I’ve been like reading the news and reading all these, watching all these like reels about how terrible things are and wars and bombings and prisons and like feelings sort of like helpless and hopeless and disconnected and like, my eyes literally hurt, but I am not actually napping. And so like, like I think that, and I’m saying this just as much to myself as I am to you or anyone else is like, I probably need like both more naps and also more picnics and also more protests.

00:10:02

And also let’s spin another p like, and also like more pottery, right? Like, like I think that like what I, what like I think I like need to unhook from is this sort of like mediocre, there’s a Bible verse about this also, like, right, like, don’t be there, don’t be be be hot or cold. Don’t be lukewarm God lukewarm. Or like, I think that this like, sort of like lukewarm, I feel like I don’t have enough energy to go to the park, but I like, don’t wanna take a nap ’cause it feels like there’s too much to do. So then I kind of do like neither. And so I think like the, like how can I both rest and then also like rejuvenate and like those like might be two different things and Instagram reels and YouTube videos as much as I want them to be rejuvenating or not actually rejuvenating, right?

00:10:51

It’s like a talk with friends of like fresh sour of like watching the sunset, like whatever it might be. Like going to like a community meeting and meeting my neighbors, like getting outside of my house. I always, I hate sometimes leaving my house. And also 95% of the time if I’m leaving my house as long as I’m home by 8:45 PM like I I’m glad that I, I’m glad that I left the house. So there’s like something there about this sort of like, yes ending, it’s like not either or. And like the times that I feel like most in need of support, like going, whether it’s to a book club or services or just like meeting up with friends and offering a listening ear, like giving support also sometimes then allows me to get support and asking for what you need.

00:11:43

And like, like now more than ever, community connections just like feel super important and that does take like work, but it’s like a different type of work than like your day job work. You know what I mean? Yeah, that’s that’s what I was gonna say. Like I, it feels to me that sometimes the things that take energy, like showing up at a protest or a community meeting or, or even like engaging with friends while while those do take energy, it takes, it’s a different, it’s a more engaged energy, right? And the recovery from that is different. It feels a lot different than like doom scrolling or tweeting or getting in involved in like in raging conversations online.

00:12:30

Yeah. I in a way that like, that too can sometimes feel like you’re doing something like quote unquote doing something. Like you’re staying informed, you’re bringing a Awareness stand, speaking your voice. Yes. Yeah. Like all of those things. But like those take a different type of toll And I think that like lead I, I’ll, I’ll speak for myself, like often lead me to a feeling of, I don’t know, like blah is the best Blah god word For it. Right. I’m Just like, a lot of the time that’s like, Yeah. Where it’s just like I, I I get like, I guess I’m engaged, I guess what, but it doesn’t, like I’m not rejuvenated and I’m also like not spent in a way that feels right.

00:13:14

There is a way in which like when I’ve done a really good thing, I had a hard conversation with someone Yeah. That I do feel spent, but it it’s like a good kind of spent Yeah. That like, like after a really good workout, right? Like you, your body feels spent, but it also feels Yeah. Strong and engaged and you feel in it. And I think that like, that feels like an important distinction for me too. Yeah. You know, I, so I used to, there was a while a few years ago where I was like praying every day. I mean, and also like praying, I am not a talk to God prayer. I’m like a read a liturgy prayer. So I, but like, so it wass like the same liturgy every day or like for a while with poems.

00:13:54

Like, so when I say pray, like I really mean like spending like some amount of minutes in sort of structured mindfulness. And I was like doing like every day And I was like, really great. And I like have been doing it for a while and like, like a few weeks ago I like, I was like, oh, like maybe I should like, like dab in this morning. And I like did it And I was like, oh, that felt great. Like I wish I did this more. And then like I did it then like the next day maybe, And I was like, oh, this is awesome. I’m gonna keep doing this. And then like the third day I didn’t do it. Like, And like it does, like, you do have to sort of like keep your foot on the pedal a little bit and like, I don’t know, I like, I, that is something that speaks to me like reading, whether it’s like liturgical prayers or poetry, but like, it could be journaling or knitting or crafting or like hosting weekly meals with your roommates or your chosen family or just like your friends.

00:14:44

Like I know that we’re like a little broken record here, but like, what are the like practices that like support and sustain you and like you the like weird paradox, right? Is that like you do have to like exert some amount of effort on it. It’s just that like, kinda like you were saying like a workout, but it’s like a workout for your heart, like your, your, your soul that like, you exert a little bit of effort for your soul and then like the, the payoff is so much more than the effort. Like, we invited a few people over for dinner on a Friday night a few weeks ago, and it was like, oh, there was just five of us and like my husband made a crockpot chicken, like pulled chicken thing like that we put on store-bought rolls and it was like just, it was very simple and pretty cheap and like, but so like, so lovely, right?

00:15:41

And I was like, oh, I wanna do more of this. And like, then we had friends over for drinks before a bunch of ’em went over to out to their Kylie Mano concert. Like that night I didn’t, I stayed in, but like some of them went to that And I was like, oh, we should like, we should like move this thing like every Friday. Of course. Like I haven’t, so like for as much as I, as much as we like talk about rituals, we have like a whole workshop inside of spi, study hall, sanctuary collective about rituals and the power of them. Like even I sometimes need to sort of like go back to those checklists and worksheets and sort of like recommit to them. And so like, I think like, I guess I didn’t start out this conversation thinking that I was gonna like end here, but I was like, oh, like what are the, and whether it’s like spiritual rituals are just sort of like communal care.

00:16:26

Like what are the things that actually make me feel cared for, protected, safe, seen, supported part of something bigger and like how might I put in a little bit of effort to get those and then also like maybe say no to some stuff that like isn’t gonna actually fill me up and like go to bed early. Like, I’m so glad I didn’t go to the sky Le Monroe concert. Like if you feel like I went to bed like on a Friday night at like 9:00 PM it was fucking amazing, right? So like sometimes it’s saying like, that does sound like fun, but like, let’s do an afternoon thing this weekend instead of getting together at 9:30 PM for drinks. You know, like, and or maybe you’re a night owl at 9:30 PM works great for you and an afternoon thing wouldn’t be good for you.

00:17:08

But like figuring out like what, like how can you sometimes do rest but also not like resting without retreating I think is, I guess what I’m figuring out. And that also makes me think of like, I, I think often when I’m as stressed and as busy as I currently am, it can feel like, what do you mean you want me to have rituals on top of this? Like I don’t even have time to Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sleep I like and now I’ve gotta do this new thing. And one of the things that I’ve been working on and not always succeeding with but working on over the past couple of years is like to use a kind of businessy term is like what’s my minimum viable ritual, right?

00:17:50

Where it’s like in an ideal day, right, I would love to sit down before I go to work and write three pages longhand in my journal and while having a cup of coffee and then light a candle and read some prayers and read a poem and meditate and do like all of these different things. And it’s like, okay, that’s the perfect, so like what is, what is the like thing that I can keep in practice? And so it’s like, great, I can write three sentences in my journal and it might be at the end of the day, not in the morning, I can do five minutes of meditation instead of 10. I can read a super short poem or nothing.

00:18:32

Right? Like yeah. That there are ways for me to stay engaged in these practices even if it’s not ideal. And, but it, that is still like keeping me engaged in that, in that practice so that when I do have more time, you know, then I can do the full thing. There was also some meditation teacher that, that was, had this thing of like, anyone who said, I’m too busy to meditate. He’s like, you should meditate for 20 minutes a day and if you’re too busy to meditate for 20 minutes a day, you should meditate for two hours a day. Right? It was this sense of like, the busier you’re, the more that you actually need the thing. And I, I’m sure that that teacher was maybe being facetious, but Yeah.

00:19:14

But I think that there is something there of like, it’s in the times when we’re most stressed and the, and when we feel most, like I do not have time to go out with my friends. I do not have time to engage in spiritual practices. I do not have time to do X, y and Z. Yeah. But those are the times when we most desperately need to figure out how to do something, something to connect something to practice something to whatever. Yeah. And I don’t know if this is like an a DHD hyper fixation thing or if this is just like an everyone thing, but like, I often find myself like wanting to, like when I have like an idea of like wanting to like really go big, I wanna like watch 12 different YouTube videos about it.

00:19:55

I wanna like read some articles about it. I want some checklist. I wanna like make a spreadsheet or a plan or start a new project in my like to do app and like we’re like, go big, right? And it’s like, yeah, or, or like, could I just like do one thing? Like could I just like text it, right? Like I don’t actually have to have a whole system for like how I’m gonna send every single person I know a birthday card in an anniversary card And I just thinking of you card all year long, I could just send like one card to the next person whose birthday is right. Or like for my mornings like to sort of like pray the morning like prayer service and, and Judaism it like takes like about 15 minutes if you’re like by yourself and kind of going quickly. But like, if I like wanna get like my prayer show out, it’s like, it’s like at least 18 to 20 minute like endeavor, right?

00:20:36

Like, And I have to like find my per on then fold it back up afterwards. So I’m like, that’s like my ideal. But like, okay. But so I don’t, I don’t either, like I don’t have time for that or I’m just like, do all energy And I don’t feel like that, that feels like overwhelming wherever I am, like sitting or laying down. Can I just like use the timer on my watch for five minutes and just sort of like count my breath and then maybe say thema, which is like one sentence, two sentences before or after that and like call that a day. Which, which like leads me, I guess like, which like leads me into this thing that we have coming up The Queerness Every Day Challenge. One of the things that we talk about is like finding affirmations or like literally like micro rituals that you can sort of like remind yourself of ways in which your queerness and your faith are like already intertwined.

00:21:29

And like starting with something like super, super small as like a really powerful reminder of the, like that you’re good, that you’re holy, that you’re deserving of love and rest. That you’re like, your body is good. Like whatever is like fuels important for you. Like whatever, like the word is that you need to hear. Like how can you find these like tiny little practices that you can sort of like smush into your life that don’t feel like they’re add-ons that you can do laying down, that you can do on the bus, that you can do before bed that you can like do before tired, but you don’t have to do anything. All you have to do is like open your eyes and like look at the thing you already put out like three weeks ago.

00:22:09

Right. So that’s coming up soon. I Shay you wanna share a little bit more about this? Yeah. You know, one of the things that I love about The Queerness Every Day Challenge this is will be our what our third time doing it fourth. So yeah, third time. Is that like, it, it’s a good reminder to me about how about returning to the same practices? Like, and we, we switch it up a little bit each year, but, but the, the functional thing is kind of the same. So like, how do we do these small things that can infuse queerness and spirituality and the intersections between them into our daily lives in like five minutes a day or less? And what I love about this is like, it’s a reminder to me that a revisiting and returning to the same practices reveal something deeper every time to me.

00:23:00

And also like, because I have changed in the last year, even though I’m doing the same thing, like I’m gonna have a different experience of it because I’m different. And it’s a reminder that like even small things can, when when they add up, can make a really big difference in that. Like re-engaging in this work, reminding myself of these intersections and why they matter to me, like is deeply, deeply meaningful. And so whether you’ve done it with us in the past or whether you’re like brand new to it, really encourage you to, to join this queerness everyday challenge. It’s super fun. We have a community space collective, something, something small that you can do.

00:23:47

There’s some advanced player moves if you’ve done it before or you wanna take it even deeper. And we do it together every day for a week and, and come together and form community around that. And it’s, it’s really awesome. It’s a, it was a really special time every year and so we hope you’ll will join us for that. Yeah, and it’s the first week of June, so it’s a great way to kick off your pride month. It runs Sunday, June 1st to Friday, June 6th. It’s just $7 and you can do it from anywhere in the world. We have folks in the US and Canada and South Africa, and Denmark Australia, Germany, South Korea, like really, really from all over. And so we would love to have you be a part of that.